Welcome to the 22nd episode of the #AskAPrivateLender​​ Podcast brought to you by Mortgage Automator. Our guest is Josh Lloyd, Co-Founder of Yieldi, an online marketplace for investors and borrowers offering high-yield short-term real estate investments directly to investors without brokerage fees.

Josh is our first guest operating in the US, so this was a great opportunity to learn more about the market specifics over there, as well as some of the strategies that contribute to Yieldi’s success, how they handle their broker relationships, and more.

Listen, watch, or read the interview below. And stay tuned for more episodes coming up!

Lawrence: Today we have a great guest for you. Actually, it’s our first guest from the U.S., Josh Lloyd from Yieldi. Thank you so much for stopping by. For those of you who don’t know Yieldi, they’re an online marketplace for investors and borrowers. They offer high-yielding short-term real estate investments directly for investors, without the brokerage fees. Josh, one question I always like to start off with is how did you get started in the private lending industry?

Josh: Yieldi’s been around since 2019. Originally for me, I’m a technology guy, so I’ve been in the tech space my whole career. I was really fortunate to start a couple of companies that did quite well. We exited and I had some cash, and I was looking to put that out in some meaningful way to earn yield.

My family has a lot of background in real estate, so whether it was renting properties or fixing up properties, or hard money lending, as it was. I got a chance to spend some time with my dad and my grandfather prior to his passing back in 2016, and had a long conversation with him. I was like, “Look, I need to start doing some loans.” They were both super helpful to me early on and taught me a lot about how to properly underwrite properties.

For me personally, I was doing a lot of residential properties, just because they’re a little bit easier to understand. I was specifically doing them in areas that I understood, which for me meant South Florida mostly and a little bit of Atlanta, because that’s where I live now. A little bit along the way, I was still working for the parent company that had bought my previous company. It was called FitMetrix, and a company called Mindbody acquired us.

I was getting burnt out, especially selling two companies in three years. I was like, “I don’t really want to work that much right now. I need to take some time off.” Getting enough passive income was really important to me, and specifically, lending or hard money loans was super interesting to me because it was safe, right? It was backed by real estate. I had a first-position mortgage on the property. We never went above 70% loan-to-value. 

By the end of 2018, maybe the beginning of 2019, I was really fortunate. Just weird timing or coincidence, but I went to a new gym and I met a guy named Joseph Ashkouti, and he and his family had been in real estate development here in the Atlanta area for pretty much about 50 years doing all sorts of stuff, residential, commercial, multifamily, and they have an ability and a team to underwrite all sorts of assets of property. Joe and I got to talking, and from his point of view, his costs of construction at that point were really starting to go up higher and higher. He was trying to find different ways to leverage his money, and he found some local opportunities for some private lending as well.

When he and I had met, he was first like, “Wow, man, how are you getting all these loans?” I was like, “Well, I’m not telling you that, but if you want to invest in them, that’s a great idea.” At that point, I had a couple of friends of mine who were interested in investing money in these loans, because they saw what I was doing. I let them participate in these loans, just kind of as a favor. Once Joe and I started doing a few loans together, it quickly became obvious that there was a model that hasn’t really been deployed here in the U.S. that successfully, but between my technology and his real estate experience, we thought we could carve out a really nice niche.

That was kind of a way better way to allow investors to come to participate in these loans with us through an online marketplace, through technology, to get high yield returns, where we’re making some money on the spread of what we’re servicing the loans at versus what we’re paying those limits out at. That was the beginning, and a couple of years later we’re growing a lot. We’ve got a growth trajectory, both in terms of the investors and the borrowers. We’re really happy with the business progress so far.

Lawrence: Talk about your actual business and the deals that you’re getting and you’re writing. Number one, how do borrowers find you? Is it direct to the borrower? Do you deal with brokers that send you deals?

Joseph: What’s your wheelhouse deal? What’s your bread-and-butter type of loan, or are you guys fairly open to doing all sorts, because of the experience that Chris’ family and Joe’s family have?

Josh: Typically, bread-and-butter for us is 250K to 5M, anything in that sweet spot. We’re in about 24 states actively right now. That’ll grow. If it’s got good loan-to-value, it’s got a good borrower and a good story, whether it’s commercial or residential, we can get it closed pretty quickly. We’ve got enough funds, between ourselves and our investor pool that we have within our marketplace, to really get those loans closed, and that’s the biggest thing. The borrowers that we work with are looking for speed, right? It’s not always because they have bad credit. It’s actually most often not that they don’t have bad credit, it’s just that they have a reason they’ve got to close fast.

Then as far as how we get the deals, it changes a little bit over time. I love watching you guys put out your Instagram stories with marketing and SEO tips and other things. That’s obviously near and dear to my heart. That’s my background. We do get a fair number of direct leads from borrowers through our marketing and through our SEO. To be honest, what we find is that that’s great, but those borrowers are either inexperienced or they’re not really ready to make a commitment yet.

We like paying broker fees, because what we find is that the brokers have already vetted the borrowers. They’re bringing us a loan package. Yeah, we’re paying a couple of bucks for it, but you know what? It just makes sense. They’re easy. We put a lot of our marketing energy into trade shows, online marketing, and other marketplaces that will bring us a nice broker network.

Joseph: It is interesting to talk about this because we’re from Canada, you guys are from the U.S, and we’ve learned the market’s a little bit different, but what Lawrence and I have learned is with brokers, if you’re training them and teaching them how to properly package these deals, the amount of time you’re wasting is significantly lower than if you’re dealing with a consumer who’s like, “Yeah, I think I want to borrow this much, I think I want to buy this, I’m not even sure if I want to buy it yet, I’ve got to check with my wife,” and just spending all this time underwriting these deals, getting excited to fund them. You’ve got investors that are looking to put out cash, and you’re just spinning a lot of wheels. Whereas brokers, they’ll just come in. If they figure it out, and they get exactly what you’re looking for and you build that rapport with them, it’s just like in and out. It’s like a factory, essentially.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, brokers appreciate a fast no as much as they do a yes, honestly, because they don’t want to have their time wasted. We can look at a deal. We can run it through our very basic underwriting algorithms and just be like, “Yeah, this is just not going to make any sense. We’re never going to get there. Good luck. Hopefully, you’ll find somebody else who can.” On the other hand, the ones that do make sense, we can typically do our basic diligence of looking at a property and the borrower upfront within 24 hours to have a term sheet to them, so they love that too, and then get into our operational processes. That also, we continue to streamline on a daily basis to get these things closed within a week if we can.

Lawrence: Can you expand on the online marketplace? Where do people find your deals?

Josh: Yeah, that’s a great question. I’m going to answer that question in two ways. Before I talk about the marketplace itself, one thing that I think might be helpful to the people listening to this, that was a shock, frankly, to us, was that I like to surround myself with good companies and agencies that are really good at what they do, right? Every online marketing company I spoke to said, “Nah, Instagram’s a waste of time. Nobody’s going to care.” Well, actually they were completely wrong.

What I’m finding is that on our Yieldi Instagram page, if you properly have a good social marketing company or can do it yourself, that puts these offerings out there that you talk about your knowledge of the space, you talk about why this just makes sense. If you’re looking for something with a good yield and a good high interest rate, it makes a lot of sense. Then we, as the owners of the company, re-share those on our stories, and then people follow up with us. The number of leads of investors that see that [on Instagram] and come talk to us is actually way higher than I ever imagined, to be honest.

As far as the marketplace itself goes, Lawrence, this is also interesting. To be an accredited investor…and for the moment, Yieldi only works with accredited investors. That may change over time, but that’s how we are today. The sign-up process can be annoying and daunting, depending on where you’re putting your money. Anyone who’s invested money in a real estate deal or an equity deal or anything, maybe a technology deal, it’s a lot of paperwork just to subscribe to get started. One of the first things we wanted to tackle was making that as simple and painless as possible.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but make the sign-up seem sexy so it’s just easy and you get through it. On the back end of that, you DocuSign a couple of things. You get an automated email and you’re ready to roll, basically. Once that happens, whether you’re a prospect that maybe has talked to us or whether you’re actually a signed-up investor with Yieldi, we’ll put on our Instagram that we have a new offering. We’ll put it out via email, and we’ll always put it out to our existing investor base first and then to prospective investors second, so they have a chance to look at the loan and gobble it up if it makes sense. They get the email before the loan’s available to be consumed.

We want to create a little bit of sense of urgency because there is a sense of urgency. These things get gobbled up usually within 24 hours when we put them out on the marketplace. We’ll let them know what it is and give them a day or two to look at the property, ask us any questions, and then we’ll send a follow-up. Once it’s time to actually invest, they’ll invest right online, go through a pretty simple checkout process actually, and that includes the ability to take their money via wire. Or actually, something new to us … we’re just starting and we’ve had some good early success… investors in the United States, which may be different from Canada, can use their retirement accounts as an alternative vehicle, and have those interest payments go back into their retirement accounts.

They choose, “Hey, I have my Schwab account. I want to get a bank wire.” The money pulls that out. They sign the documents that give them a promissory note against that specific loan and they’re good to go, and they get an interest payment immediately. Let’s say today’s August 17th. We typically pay our investors on the 10th. By the 10th of the month, if someone puts money in today, they’ll get 13 days of interest for this month, and then each 10th thereafter they’ll get their monthly interest payments. It’s pretty straightforward.

Joseph: Is there a minimum amount of money people can buy into on a loan? When you put an offering out there, let’s say? Let’s use a million-dollar residential house as an example, because obviously $5M, you might have more investors participating. What would you say the average number is of investors that will participate in a million-dollar deal? Then again, what is the minimum amount? They can’t put in $5K, can they?

Josh: Not currently. If we eventually go down the unaccredited path, but with the amount of technology and being able to scale the business up from that side of things, we’re not quite there yet. We look at that. We don’t really ever want to have more than 8-10 investors in any deal, no matter what, and that’s really size-dependent. That would be like a $3M to $5M deal. Using your million-dollar residential deal, it’s probably, at the end of the day, going to end up being somewhere around five investors, just based on our experience. The minimum investment amount would be around $50K in that loan. Usually what we find is people will put in $100K.

Plus, keep in mind that one of the reasons this is super attractive to our investors is Joe and I specifically, we look at these loans like we’re going to put our own money in them because we do put our own money in them. That’s why we started the business, to begin with. We might put our money in a loan and only make 75% of that loan available. These loans get gobbled up pretty quickly, especially if the rates are good and they understand it.

Lawrence: I’m assuming you come in on these loans even before you’re going after investors, so you’re basically saying, “If nobody wants this deal, I’m taking it personally.”

Joseph: Josh is putting his money where his mouth is.

Josh: Pretty much, yeah. Joe and I, and Chris, and Mike, we’ll fund these loans upfront, and that’s really what the business model is. Then we’ll, quote/unquote, sell off a piece of it. Where we differ, then, and I don’t know how it is in Canada, I guess it’s worth a conversation over a drink…but in the United States, I would say that the majority of the lenders that I interact with are…and I say this nicely…glorified brokers in a lot of ways. They’ve got a little bit of money, or they’re table-funding deals with a larger institutional lender. They’ll originate that loan. They’re good at originating loans, but they’ll sell it right at the close of that loan.

Lawrence: They’re not keeping it on their balance sheets?

Josh: Yeah.

Joseph: Isn’t that called shadow loans or something like that?

Josh: Table funding. It sounds attractive, and we will do that for sure on loans that are outside of our wheelhouse. If there’s a loan that just doesn’t make a lot of sense for us, maybe the LTV is not within our parameters but it is with a partner, there’s a couple of folks that we’ll work with. Or if it’s a larger deal than we’re comfortable with that we can raise the funds, we’ll do something like that. For the most part, for our loans, we want them on our balance sheet. It’s half our revenue, frankly.

Lawrence: What would you say your biggest challenge is currently in the business?

Josh: Our business is like a seesaw. Depending on the day of the week, we have too many loans, or too much cash, or too little cash. I think every two-sided marketplace, no matter what you’re doing, goes through this problem, which is why you get it down. It’s a good problem to have. I would say the second thing, and this isn’t necessarily a challenge on a daily basis, but it’s important…we’ve created a lot of technology around how we underwrite loans and score those loans out. Unless there’s a really, really good reason for it, we won’t go outside of our lending parameters, because that will keep us out of trouble, so making sure we do have enough good loans. We always love good loans, and sometimes it ebbs and flows with what we’ve got.

Lawrence: Rates and fees? What should people expect when coming to you guys?

Josh: We’re not the cheapest, but we’re the fastest. Time is money. I would say right now, our average rates on a loan are 10% to 14%, averaging around 12% pretty consistently over the last year. We’ll go down from that, certainly, for a good borrower or a good deal. On the origination fee side, just again, depending on the deal, it probably averages around two points of origination fees. One thing is we’re very transparent about our fees. We don’t really charge any other hidden fees. I mean, that’s pretty much what you’re going to pay. On that side, as far as our investors go, we make about a 3% spread for servicing a loan. If we’re getting 12%, we’re giving our investors 9%, and that’s why it’s so attractive, and they understand it, and they’re in the first position on these loans.

Lawrence: I’m assuming the investors love that they get to pick their own deals, right? It’s not like you’re going into a fund, and here’s my money, and whatever happens, happens. It’s they’re looking at specific loans, they’re able to underwrite them themselves, make an educated decision based on what they feel, and they can either opt-in or wait for the next one.

Josh: 100%. It’s a mix. Some of our investors are very hands-on. They understand the real estate market. For example, I’ve got guys who only want to invest in Florida. Why? They live there. They understand the market for it. Guys here in Atlanta love the market here because they understand it. Some guys are in the commercial real estate business. They won’t touch it if it’s residential. They don’t understand it. They don’t want anything to do with it. Some people are just like, “Just whatever you guys think is best,” or, “If you have your money in it, that’s good enough for us.” That goes back to that point. We’re wanting to do these loans because we know our money’s going into these loans.

Lawrence: Do you guys prefer to write a lot of deals that are smaller in size or big deals? 

Josh: When I started the business, I think it was probably a little bit of my dad’s influence on me. It was, hey, smaller deals won’t get you hurt, which is true. What’s also true is that the amount of work it takes to close and subsequently service a loan is identical, whether it’s a $200K loan or $2M loan. That was more Joe’s influence on me. I get a little bit of both. In any event, no, we’re pretty happy if it’s in our wheelhouse. Personally, that 750K to a million-dollar loan, 60% loan-to-value, good borrower, I’ll write it all day long. I love it.

Lawrence: How much have you guys been growing year over year? I know you guys started in ’19. What’s your plan from where you are today to how big you guys want to get? Is your goal to be a billion dollars, half a billion? What’s your vision for the company moving forward?

Josh: Great question. I think this is the one interesting thing about growing an online two-sided marketplace. I think success for us ultimately is going to come in the number of investors we have in our platform because if our marketing and our efforts towards getting those investors get us to 1,000 investors, an average investor has got $150K invested with us, that’s over a billion dollars.

That’s how I look at it. It’s like what are the marketing efforts that we can be putting into getting these investors? As far as the growth, you’re right. It’s always funny. This is my, I guess, third big-sized startup. I love the first year or two because you’re going to have 1000% growth. Well, yeah, when you start at a dollar, that’s pretty easy. Actually, Joe and I were doing loans before we got started in ’19. Really you go back prior to Yieldi starting, and it’s really history back to about 2017. We’ve got about four years of history. The day we came into Yieldi, we already had revenue, which was a unique experience to find myself in. I would say last year, for sure we doubled in size, including there being COVID.

Now, the one incredibly interesting challenge…or I don’t know if it’s a challenge as much, I guess it’s more of a modeling issue…is these loans are 12 months. Theoretically, if 100% of my loans pay off over the course of 12 months, I’ve got to re-get that business and then re-get double that business to double in size. That is not the easiest thing to do. We’ve modeled that 50% of our loans will pay off, 50% of our loans are going to sign extensions and renew, and then we’ll continue to double in size by bringing on new loans.

Lawrence, going back to the size question, when you increase your average loan size, which was around $275K two years ago to more like $600K now, that makes that a little bit easier, but that won’t last forever. It’s just continued growth, basically. I would say half a billion to a billion, Joe.

Lawrence: You’re 50/50 in terms of paying out and extending. Are you finding that’s where you’re at currently? Are you finding that half of the people extend and half payout?

Josh: Yeah, exactly. At the end of the day, we understand there’s a reason somebody came to us and not to a traditional bank. There’s 10 reasons, but we absolutely understand that at the end of a loan, what we find and I’m sure a lot of other lenders find too, is two weeks before the loan is due, the borrower wakes up and goes, “Oh, wait, my loan is about to mature? What am I supposed to do?” Even though you send them a notice. I’m sure you guys went through that. You send them notices, you do all the things you’re supposed to do, but we try to work with them, try to figure it out. If they’re a good borrower, they’ve never missed a payment, we look at the property. If we still like it, their taxes are current, their HOA is good if it’s a residential property, we’re like, “Yeah, we would do this loan again today. No problem. We’ll re-up that loan, and do an extension.” Yeah, so far it’s about half and half.

Lawrence: What is some of the best money-related advice that either you personally can give or that you’ve heard over time, dealing with people with money?

Josh: I think that everyone’s a little different. For us, I think the number one thing that helps us is the fact that we have our own money in it. It’s not like we’re inexperienced and just like, “Hey, throw us some money over the table and we’ll promise you some outlandish returns.” I think in general, having two technology startups…and you guys obviously know this better than anybody, but for other folks that don’t…technology companies eat quickly. I mean, our burn rate at my last couple of companies was a lot. Keeping confidence with your investors to continue to give money is incredibly important.

At the end of the day, for me, it was always and has always been transparency. “Here’s what’s going on. Here’s what you can expect. Here’s what we’re doing.” I always want to pick up the phone, talk about it. If it’s a good thing or a bad thing, either way, we’ll have a conversation and always be transparent, because that trust, once it’s eroded, it’s gone.

Lawrence: I think that once they invest in a few deals and they see the money coming back, but at first they’re nervous. It’s always easy to be in the driver’s seat, putting your own money into your own deals that you vet, because you’re in complete control. When you’re in the passenger seat and you’re depending on that person or that company to manage that money for you, it’s always nice to get it back. I think once you do get it back, you’re quite eager to redeploy it very quickly after that, just because now you know the people you’ve done business with have proven that not only they can make you that money, but they can actually return it in a semi-headache-free way. Now you’ve built that trust.

Josh: 100%. Actually, I have two thoughts I want to say. I couldn’t agree more, and it goes both ways. If you put a little bit of money in and you start seeing that return and you see the reports that are automatically generated…thank you, Mortgage Automator…and you see some of these things, you’re like, “Hey, wait, that was easy. This is my favorite investment.” We get that quite a lot from people because they’re like, “Ah, this is just easy.” They look forward to our emails and are like, “Yeah, I want to give you more money.”

I have a funny story. One of our investors actually had been with us. He’s in pretty good-sized loans. He’s a friend of the family, so it was somebody that had prebuilt trust anyway. Nonetheless, actually, a loan paid off and he was like, “Hey, that’s great. You know what, I need that money for something. Can you wire it back?” We were like, “Yeah, whatever, no problem,” and sent the money back. He kept the money for five minutes. He goes, “No, I was just kidding. I just wanted to make sure that process would work.”

He sent us the money back to put it in the next loan. That was actually pretty funny. You know, this is where technology comes in, right? You take the idea of transparency and communication, where is my money, being able to see individual loans, seeing the history of all that, that’s a big part of what we focus on every day.

Lawrence: The industry is small. Obviously, you probably know your competitors, you know who’s doing loans in your area. What makes you guys different?

Josh: The market is humongous. The industry is small, that is absolutely true, but the size of the market itself is large. That’s one obvious thing. Two are broker relationships. We have had so many conversations with brokers that have been burned by a lender lying to them, or not being able to get to the closing table. We’ve been in situations where brokers have not had a direct lender relationship, so they went to another broker who had another broker, so we ended up at the closing table with 3 and 4 brokers. Then we introduce ourselves to all of them and say, “That’s cool. Next time, just go to us directly.” They’re like, “Man, this was such a smooth loan.”

A lot of that also comes back to a little bit of what we do with Mortgage Automator, is we take advantage of the platform to automate every possible communication we can, so that the borrower, the broker, everybody’s in touch. It’s really almost like what Joseph was saying on the investor side. “Hey, I’ve done a deal with these guys. I get it.” It’s the same thing on the broker and the borrower side. Once a broker is like, “Man, these guys closed this loan, they did it in seven days, they did everything they said they would do, they’d answer the phone, I’m just going to do that,” then they start telling their other friends.

I will say also, as a lender, we’ll look at a loan and go…man, we had a $9M loan for instance, and it was a no-brainer, but it’s just outside of our wheelhouse at the moment to close a $9M loan. We had all the diligence. We had everything and the amount of time that the institutional guys that are in the hard money space…they’re not going to a regular bank. They want these loans. They want originators. They go to the trade shows begging for originators, and then they come to us and I’m like, “Cool, I’ve got this loan.” “Well, I don’t know. I’ve got to get back to you.” Three months. I’m like, that’s not going to happen. That’s also a big separation for us. We’ll tell you we’ll do a deal or we’ll tell you we won’t do a deal, but we’ll tell you fast.

Lawrence: It’s safe to say you’re usually people’s first call because they’re not going to waste time going to you. Either it’s going to be a yes or it’s going to be a no, and they can move on.

Josh: We try our best, yeah.

Lawrence: What has been your most memorable deal that you’ve done to date?

Josh: I would say memorable in a good way. Joe and I had a guy in Augusta, Georgia, here pretty close to Atlanta, about an hour and a half outside of Atlanta. You know the Masters Tournament. Everyone knows Augusta, I guess. He was in a pinch. He owned a property in Downtown Augusta. It was on the corner of Broad Street in a great area. The Augusta downtown area is coming back and doing good things. He had a second mortgage with the original guy he bought the property from, and they didn’t record anything. They didn’t document it. It was recorded, but it wasn’t documented how it was supposed to work.

The guy stopped taking his payments, and his first-position bank. I think it was Coastal Carolina Bank, if I remember correctly. He called his loan. He was like, “We’re out of the commercial. We’re not giving you this loan anymore. You’d better find another lender.” We worked with him, and we got to the finish line and the guy in the second position, we couldn’t get a payoff. He wouldn’t cooperate. He’s just like, “I’m going to take this property back.” Actually, the guy in the second position, we called his attorney.

What was that movie with Joe Pesci years ago? You guys know what I’m talking about? He goes into this small town, and I think Marisa Tomei was in that movie as well. Great movie. He was a New York lawyer.

Lawrence: You’re talking about My Cousin Vinny.

Josh: My Cousin Vinny. Anyway, I got on the phone with this guy, and I’m telling you, like the Southern accent of Southern accents, right. I said, “Look, you’ve kind of got one shot at this. We’re willing to take your guy out. We’re willing to take the bank out. We like the property. The borrower is a good guy.” They just got into a disagreement. They couldn’t figure this out. I said, “Just give me a number.” I said, “If you give me a number, I think I can make it happen.”

They settled on a number, and I called my borrower and we made it happen. We got the second guy paid off, and everyone was really happy. I think it speaks to why I like that story. It’s an older story now for us, but we’re like that. If it makes sense, the deal makes sense and we like the borrower, we’ll help you out as much as possible. We just ask you to make the payments.

Lawrence: Very good. Listen, we definitely appreciate you coming on. For people listening, just to go over everything, they’re not just in Georgia. They’re not just in Florida. You’re in how many states, were you saying?

Josh: 24 currently.

Lawrence: Where do people send deals to you? How do they get in contact with you?

Josh: They can go to our website, or they can email us at info(at)yieldi.com, and they’ll get to deal with our head of origination, which is Joe’s brother, Chris. He’s always a pleasure to deal with.

Joseph: I concur.

Lawrence: You guys are great guys. I would encourage people who’ve not dealt with you to just give you a shot. Send them one doable deal. See what the process is like. I have a suspicion you’re going to like dealing with them. 

Joseph: Make your payments on time, please.

Josh: Hey, we even have an interest reserve to help out, and our software helps us with that too.

Lawrence: Do you do a lot of interest reserves on your loans? If people request that, that’s okay, you don’t mind?

Josh: It’s actually the other way around. When COVID happened, we were just dabbling our toes in that idea of interest reserves on these loans before COVID started. Then we sat in a lot of the webinars around dealing with forbearance agreements and around how to deal with interest reserves, and we were looking at the industry standards. We felt like we were a little ahead of the curve in some ways. We were really happy to learn that. Honestly, we won’t do a loan without three months of interest reserves under any circumstance at this point.

We’ll put it there as holding it until the back of the loan, if needed. In Mortgage Automator, I think it says it made the last three payments out of interest reserves, but regardless, we’ll hold that there. Sometimes they do request the interest reserves to come out. If the property is income-producing right off the bat, that’s probably where we’ll net out, is that three months. If they’ve got to do a little bit of work. Because we’ll do construction, fix and flip, all that stuff. If they’ve got to do a little bit of work to get to revenue, we’ll give them six months, and then sometimes we’ll give them 12 months on interest reserves.

While we want to be at 70% loan-to-value on these properties for the most part, varying on the property time, we’re willing to go up just a little bit, depending on the situation, to try to help them out and cover some of those reserves. We just don’t want them to default. We want to help them and ourselves.

Lawrence: You guys go to the trade shows too, right? People can find you there if they want to meet you in person?

Josh: Yeah, we’re going to the trade shows, and we’ll be in Las Vegas, Austin, San Diego, Vegas again. We’re about to run a gauntlet here. I don’t even remember where some of them are.

Joseph: We’ll be with you all the way through that.

Josh: We’re ready.