Welcome to the 11th episode of the #AskAPrivateLender Podcast brought to you by Mortgage Automator. Our first guest of 2021 is David Mandel, President and CEO of First Source Mortgage Corporation.
David has a vast experience in the industry, both on the lender and the broker side, so he had some amazing insights to share. We talked about the different aspects of being in the private lending business, from dealing with borrowers and brokers to appraisers, and more. David told us how First Source cultivated their reputation and what sets them apart from the competition. This episode is full of great advice and lessons for any private lender out there.
Listen, watch, or read the interview below. And stay tuned for more episodes coming up!
Lawrence: Obviously, everyone knows about First Source. But people don’t know about the hard work and all the hours you put into a business before it becomes known. How did you get started?
David: I guess it’s not really a long story, but it did take a long time. I was in a completely different business at a direct marketing company, which was really quite successful. I started it up right out of university. It went well for a while, and then I had a falling out among the partners.
So, I started to look for something else. I was fortunate enough to have some family members in the mortgage business. They seemed to be doing really well. It was early 1989. The fax machines were relatively new, and you would stand by the fax machine feeding deals in. It was an interesting beginning because I remember sitting down, and my superior at the time said, “See this newspaper? Open it up to the real estate section.” I opened up to the real estate section. “See all these people? They all need a mortgage. Start dialing.”
That’s how I started. Honestly, I never looked back. 1989, it all hit the fan. It was a bloodbath. I learned the business doing really difficult deals, helping people, saving people’s homes. I was a mortgage broker. At the time, it was a little bit different.
I’d already come to the business with business experience, business background. I had several businesses under my belt. I also had a business education, which I think really helped me, particularly when it comes to the commercial side of the business. I grew a brokerage, it was called First Equity Financial. I think at one time I may have had 21 agents in total. It was quite a good business. As a family, we started lending on mortgages, did a lot of second mortgages.
We had a small lending business at the same time. About a dozen or so years ago, I met my late partner, who was a lawyer and a builder-developer. He was looking to get out of the building business because he was really a small fish in a big pond. It was really difficult, as a builder-developer at the time, to control all your trades, or even get trades when you needed them. Despite being a guy who, I think his last project might have been about 150 loft condo units down in the Junction, it was troublesome. He found that the people making all the money were people financing his business. So, he really wanted to get into the mortgage business.
It came to a point where we talked about it for a real long time, and I’m still running my brokerage business. Finally, I just threw a deal on his desk and said, “Here it is. It’s $700,000. Me and some of my investors will put in half. You put in some money. Call up some of your lawyer buddies or whatever.” We started and we never looked back.
Lawrence: So you got his feet wet on that one deal, and it ended up turning into a partnership?
David: Yeah, we started the partnership. We started First Source. You start off a deal, $300,000, $700,000, then a million, then two million, and 12 years later, I think our largest deal this year was $42.5 million.
Coming from a broker background, it’s probably important to the people I do business with because I’ve stood in their shoes. I did residential brokerage for years, a good 20 years in residential and subsequently, commercial brokerage. Ultimately, we decided that there was a niche in the commercial lending space, particularly in Ontario. I think we’ve made really, really good inroads into that space.
I think my years, also being involved with the Independent Mortgage Brokers Association, my last duty, I was a past president. I worked with IMBA for about a dozen years. I think that was also good for my career. It’s also a great way of giving back.
Lawrence: I think anyone can raise money, right? I think money is out there to lend out. I think that having that knowledge, that understanding of not just lending out money but also the other side, as a broker at one point and doing all those deals, I think it’s good for every side of the transaction. So, your investors that come in, they’re comfortable knowing that you understand how to put deals together. You understand what you’re lending on.
At the same time, the broker understands when they’re providing a deal to your company, it’s another set of eyes on that deal. How can we make this happen? Is it a good deal? How can we structure it properly?
So the inexperienced broker that maybe comes up with a commercial file, that doesn’t know how to put it together, maybe they’re sitting on gold and they don’t even know it. Sending it into a company like yours, you’ll massage it, and you’ll help them put it together. With that knowledge, they can get a deal funded that maybe they wouldn’t have otherwise been able to do.
David: Even if we can’t do the deal, I can help them. I guess that’s my nature. I can help them with structure. With 30 years in the business, I can tell them what lender to call. We have certain lending parameters, and we have certain sweet spots, but often, I can also tell you if your deal’s been shopped.
One thing about being in the lending business, you know where you stand in the food chain. I see a lot of business. We have a very strong pipeline. I see deals being recycled and recycled, and for newer brokers or brokers that don’t have experience in construction or commercial, that don’t really know how to do that deal. I mean, I built my brokerage business as being a broker’s broker, somebody you could call and split a deal with. We’re here to help. We’ve got a system in place that can most definitely provide you with a quick answer, whether we’re going to do the deal, or whether I can assist you by sending you in the right direction, or telling you, “You might be wasting your time, and here’s why.”
Joseph: I think that’s one of the more important things that David had touched on, which is being a broker and understanding the thought process, understanding you have a different motive as a broker than you do as a lender.
You’re able to also sort of figure out what they’re telling you, maybe what they’re not telling you, know how to ask those questions, but also at the same time, you would probably look back and say, “You know what, these are all the things I didn’t get as a broker, service-wise, relationship-wise that I’m going to change and bring that attitude to the lending side and let my guys feel like they’re going to be looked after. They’re going to be nurtured. They’re going to be educated. We’re going to try to get deals done any way we can.” And I think that you bring that attitude to the table and that is the recipe for why you guys are successful today.
David: I think it has a great deal to do with it, and thank you for that. One of our processes that we instituted immediately that I don’t think you get elsewhere, coming from being a broker is an understanding that the people that are sending me business are trusting me to assist them with their livelihood.
So what we do I think that’s different from others is from the moment we decide or tell you that we want to do your deal is we’ll back it up with a letter of interest or even if we go straight to commitment, but we want you to be and feel protected. And I think that goes a long way with people that this is a learning experience for commercial lending or construction. So we will write your fee right into our documentation.
So even though you’re trained and you know that you’re going to get a direction notice and you have to trust a lawyer to deduct your fee, and it may not be your lawyer. There’s a lot of trust there. I mean, I had the experience as a broker where my fee didn’t get deducted. I had to go chase fees. You don’t want to be in that position in private lending.
Your fee is built right into our documentation so a borrower can never say, “Well, I didn’t know you were charging me that much, or you were charging me. I thought you were getting a finder’s fee.” Everything’s in black and white from the beginning. We like to do that because it helps our sources of business, our agents and brokers to train their borrowers and set expectations properly the first time, and allow us to do our job and often deal directly with the borrower as if we were doing the broker’s job too. And that way we eliminate broken telephone.
We can talk to a broker, but if that broker is a residential A broker, even if I tell them to ask for this and this, they may not know how to ask for it or what the purpose is. So we like to work really closely with our brokers and agents and make sure they’re protected from the outset.
Lawrence: I’m sure they all appreciate that too. Let’s talk about First Source. So you guys are predominantly a commercial-based lender. Do you do residential as well, the odd time, or is it always commercial?
David: What I will look at is I really don’t want to do a deal under a million dollars and sort of between one and three million dollars, I’m doing those selectively. Our sweet spot is about $3.5 million to $15 million, in that range. So I will look at luxury residential homes in really good areas, Oakville, Forest Hill, York Mills, and Bayview, bridge loans in that instance.
I like doing residential development land. That’s probably one of our sweet spots, something we’re really well known for. It’s typically residential development land for first-time buyers product or move-up buyers product. So it’s townhouses, stack towns, sometimes a mix of medium density, like townhouses with higher density. So maybe a mid-rise involved. By saying later stage, I’m talking about a product that is maybe two years away from site plan approval. It’s easy to understand, and the value of the property increases in value as you’re going up. So our loan to value is decreasing. That’s in a steady marketplace.
It’s also important as lenders and dealing with many different types of private investors and family offices, everything we do, we’re thinking about the preservation of capital. One thing about us is we know how we’re getting out before we get in. We know what our exit strategy is, and that’s a learning experience once again for brokers and agents, because it’s something we focus on because we need to know that we have an exit strategy. And also if push comes to shove, our exit in selling a property in the enforcement process, we’ve got a reasonable cushion to work with to get out.
Lawrence: Yeah, understanding that we’re putting a deal on our books. How is the deal going to get off our books one day I think is an important part of the equation when you’re in that business. Yeah, I think it’s actually one of the most important parts of the deal.
Deals can look great, but if you can’t get it off your books one day, you’re kind of stuck unless you’re selling it. And I’m assuming you’re not really in the business of selling properties. You want to have smooth transactions. You want to make your interest. Your investors are happy. There are no bounced payments. You want a clean book of business. In order to do that, you have to think about those things ahead of time.
David: In the private lending business, and really what separates the men from the boys is your ability to deal with adversity and enforcement. If you’re going to lend at private mortgage rates, ultimately you never go into a deal knowing that there’s going to be a problem. Maybe if you’re a residential lender and you’re working at a power of sale. But in commercial, it’s different. Like I said, we go in with an exit strategy in mind, but things happen. Over the years we’ve developed a reputation of being very strong in dealing with the enforcement process. It was three years ago or so that we launched our mutual fund trust, and it’s gone from $0 to about $85 million under administration in that entity. We’ve had to deal with enforcement. But we haven’t lost money. We don’t lose money. Thankfully that’s been the case for us since our inception.
Not to say initially we didn’t have a few minor bumps in the road when we were doing some smaller deals. In particular, second mortgages, which we do not do. We’re a first mortgage lender strictly, and in talking about that, I just wanted to say that as far as locations… Don’t call me unfortunately to lend in Kirkland Lake or Elliot Lake, or sometimes, depending on what it is, we will make an exception. But for the most part, we lend from London to Ottawa in urban centers.
Lawrence: What makes you guys strong? Is it that you’re strict with the borrowers? Is it that you work with the borrowers to try and help them get out of a problem? What contributes to your success in terms of not losing and being strong if you have to go through the enforcement process?
David: I have an incredible team. I’ve got nine basically dedicated, hard-working individuals that have years of experience. Whether it be in underwriting, which is very, very key, and origination, anybody that works with us that originates is an underwriter at heart. They understand credit, and they understand how to deal with borrowers and how to deal with the property. But realistically, we underwrite every deal, which includes a peer review of every appraisal. I appreciate appraisers and appraisals, but if you look at how we manage our portfolios, you’ll see in our portfolio listing appraiser value…
Joseph: … And your value. I get it.
David: We deal with Altus and CBRE, and all of them. That’s fine. And some have better appraises than others. The other thing is that just coming from being a business owner, not just in the mortgage business but in other businesses, you learn to be a salesman. And as a salesman, you learn to deal with and read people. I think that’s a key feature of something that you find in the most successful mortgage brokers. It’s their ability to empathize and relate to their borrowers.
I think because of how we deal with our borrowers and our sources of business, our originators as well, we’re competitive, but rate becomes a nonissue when you know what you’re talking about. When the people you’re dealing with understand that this guy knows what he’s talking about, he has experience, and I think that’s something that we really bring to the table.
Pre-COVID, we always did business across the table from our borrowers who would come to the table with the brokers and the agents. And immediately because of that experience and knowledge, it goes back to my late partner being a lawyer and a developer. When we sat down with a builder and we started talking about condominiums, he understood condo law. A lot of this stuff rubs off after years. Although, as a commercial lender, that’s what I am. But honestly, you get to know the law. You get to understand certain things about development and planning. If you know what you’re talking about, that’s probably one of the greatest strengths you bring to the table and it comes with experience. It comes with time. It comes with doing deals.
Joseph: You guys have the two values. You have appraised value and then your company value. What was the biggest discrepancy percentage-wise you guys had on your value and the appraiser’s value?
David: I’ve seen appraised values that are probably as much as three times the value of a property. Those are deals I didn’t do. There are some really poor appraisers out there. Or there are appraisers unfortunately that will appraise property to appease their borrower, their client. I have a list of appraisers that either I won’t accept appraisals from or we will take a really hard look, probably much more in-depth than we would with others.
Joseph: What’s the incentive for an appraiser to burn you? Because he comes in with a ridiculous value and god forbid you have to go and sell that guy’s property. And you take a loss on it and a big loss within a reasonable timeframe. He’s getting sued. There’s insurance that has to get involved. Why would he take all those risks to make a few thousand dollars?
Or are you just saying some people are just shortsighted? They don’t see the big picture. They’re not looking to develop that relationship with you as a lender. Being red-flagged or nixed as a ‘do not accept’ appraiser, that hurts someone’s reputation a lot. And we know in the residential space, there are a few guys that have that name, and then there are also a few guys that are the common household names that everyone accepts because they have a reputation of being even slightly more conservative. They call them the deal killers, but I look at that as no, these are the guys that are actually evaluating properties properly.
Say you say no to it, do you have buddies that maybe overlook that because you have common people you work with in the industry. Do they get burned by the same guys?
David: You can only get burned once. But we go into a deal with that knowledge. So chances of burning a guy like me with my kind of experience are pretty slim. Now to your question, I mean, just look at assumptions of limiting conditions and all the exculpatory clauses that are there, it’s not easy to sue and win the game as an appraiser. It’s just not someplace we want to be. Our time is better spent doing other things and operating our business, and dealing with all the good actors as opposed to the bad actors.
I don’t know that they’re going into it to purposely try to have somebody like me lose money. But the appraisal is part art, part science, and sometimes the science is flawed and the art’s exaggerated. You can make a case for anything, but at the end of the day it boils down to what’s your gut telling you? What’s realistic? Is even what’s being appraised here applicable in this situation? There are a million different situations or reasons. I can’t say why that individual would do something like that, but they don’t get to do it more than once or twice and continue in their business. It’s like being a lender. If we start losing money for our investors, where is the business?
Lawrence: I think it’s a lack of knowledge. I don’t think anyone is trying to send out one appraisal that’s way overvalued just for the sake of sending it out. I think especially in commercial, you can value a commercial piece of property 10 different ways depending on what you feel the outcome’s going to be at the end of the day when it’s built and what those values are going to be. There’s a lot of different ways to look at it from their perspective.
Personally though, I think it’s a lack of knowledge, and I think from the lender standpoint why someone would lend out money because an appraiser put a number on a piece of paper. How do you explain that to your investors? “Oh, I got us into a bad deal.” Why? “Because that person said it was worth this much money.” I mean, you got to do your own research. You have to understand what you’re lending on all the way through because, at the end of the day, you have to do your own due diligence.
David: Assumptions and limiting conditions. You got to look at comparables. As an appraiser, you may argue that a certain property holds greater value to the valuation process in the appraisal than you’re going to be able to convince me. I mean, I’ve seen that on a recent deal. A property appraised for like $20 million, and my value was like $8 million. Really boils down to what you want to believe, the difference of opinion, and the comparables.
Joseph: But Dave, that’s a big discrepancy. You’re talking about a guy who’s a professional in your industry and knows what you’re doing. That guy is the upper echelon of property valuators. He isn’t just some CRA appraiser who overvalues a residential property by 50K. You’re talking about a guy who has a lot of credentials behind him, a lot of underwriting experience. This guy should know that real estate inside and out. He should’ve seen these types of properties before, and then to come in with these crazy valuations, it just seems weird because this is what people rely on. Banks might rely on this stuff.
Lawrence: I don’t think banks care anyway. I think banks, they get their number, they lend out their money. They have so much money out there anyway.
Joseph: I get that, but Dave was talking about a 100% discrepancy on a value. That’s getting your money and going completely underwater on a property.
David: Well, it’s like you’re close to getting an approval, let’s say, for a development. So whether it be a retail component, a multi-residential component, and so on. But you don’t have it yet. So until you have it, there are certain comparables you shouldn’t be using. There may be somebody out there that’s going to get that speculative value.
There are a lot of instances. This is where the art and the science part comes in. But I got to tell you, an example, as a broker I remember doing a deal with a borrower that was in power of sale, had some trouble, and came to me. And I felt really, really bad for him. But it was my nature even as a broker dealing with private investors that I would go out and inspect the property. This was a beautiful little Scarborough bungalow. White picket fence, white brick home. From the outside, well kept, looked beautiful. But when you walked in that front door, you would not let your dog live in this house. Honestly, it was out of a horror movie. It was so bad and rundown, and dilapidated. You may not catch this type of stuff in a drive-by appraisal.
Even today, on all of our deals, either myself or someone from my office walks the property, inspects the property, and meets with the borrower. There’s a process involved there. I suggest that any broker or agent should be doing this because if I ask, “Have you looked at the property yet?” typically the answer is no. It tells you a lot. It’s part of the learning process, guys.
Lawrence: One thing that’s increasing in the industry actually is fraud. We’re in touch with the title insurers. We hear about it. Have you ever experienced that in your lending business? Has anything ever happened where you had to go and claim that title insurance policy?
David: No. We’ve had title insurance claims for other reasons but not for fraud. I know of some lenders, competitors, and friends, that have had situations where it’s come almost down to the wire, and there was one little hiccup, and it was that red flag that saved hundreds of thousands of dollars from going out the door.
Lawrence: You’re meeting your borrowers. You’re going to the properties. You’re doing all those things that are going to eliminate that sort of thing from being swept under the rug. It’s definitely fraud prevention, which is a benefit to all of your investors knowing that you’re in the deal. You know what’s going on. You’re not just relying on a broker.
Joseph: Right. David gets a deal for $10 million. I’m pretty sure for his investor’s sake, for his sake, his reputation’s sake, the company’s sake, they’ll do a little bit of extra homework before they write that check for $10 million.
It is the type of due diligence you will see on the larger residential deals as well. You’ll meet the borrowers. You’ll probably check out the property. You’ll probably ask for a little bit extra. How do you plan to pay me back $5 million? How are you paying 45K monthly payments to me? Whereas residential, it’s like, “Oh, here’s $200K. $1500 a month. No problem. Pay it. Don’t pay it. We’ll start proceedings.” It’s interesting.
But that allows you to alleviate some of the stress that you have to deal with because you need their financials. You need their cash flow. You need to understand if this guy is just taking money and building this project on unicorns and butterflies and lots of hope, or does this guy have a proper foundation? Does he have experience in building and putting these projects together?
David: Experience is really, really key. A lot of our business comes from the guys who have been in the business. Maybe they have been in smaller contracting, or maybe they drove the bulldozer, now they want to build the house. And they’ve gone from the house, now they want to build 10 townhouses. Now they want to drive the bus, but they don’t have that experience.
Typically the banks or the trust companies step back from those guys. So it’s a good niche to be in, but you want to make sure that the experience that they do have is either enough to get them through the deal and they have enough equity and fall back position or they have a team in place. So you’ve got some names in there that are on contract or on a fixed price contract that you can rely on. So you can rely on that third party experience.
Joseph: You have a guy, he has bought a good piece of land at a good price. He’s got all his ducks in a row. But it’s his first rodeo. Obviously, you’re not going to give him maybe the higher loan to value that he’d be asking for. You’d be probably more conservative, but would you shy away from doing a deal if it was like prime real estate? Everything seems okay but the guy’s a newbie in the industry, versus a guy who has a reputation, needs more money, or a higher risk exposure.
David: Obviously I’d prefer dealing with somebody with more experience over somebody that is a newbie. But the guys who are relatively new are the next group of experienced builders, developers, and they’ve got to start somewhere. So that’s where private lending fills the niche. So you just got to be a little bit more careful. You’re looking for somebody that’s well-heeled. So if I were to do a 65% loan to value on a land development deal for an experienced individual or sometimes as high as 70%, I might do a 50% or under 60% loan to value with this individual the first time around. But this is not somebody who used to be a taxi driver or a convenience store owner that’s bought a site and is going to be building 18 stories. There’s got to be a fit.
Joseph: Do you do a bit of that hand-holding with the newbies? Does that make them come back to you in the future for business?
David: Well, it’s not that I make them come back to me in the future. It’s just I hope to provide both the source of business, the agent or broker, and the borrower with a rewarding experience. Make your payments on time. It’s all going to be good. And even if you can’t, just communicate.
See, one thing about land development, there’s no income. This is where I talk about you got to know how you’re getting out before you’re getting in. So your exit is typically construction financing, and that’s a larger and riskier lending experience than something I really want to do and the types of loans that we do. So we know how we’re going to get outright from the beginning.
Lawrence: That makes sense. So you said earlier you deal with family offices that invest with you. I’m sure over the years you’ve dealt with a lot of extremely wealthy individuals and families. My question to you, what’s the best money-related advice that you’ve received from someone over the years of doing business with them?
David: Invest in what you know. I’m all in here. I’m in the mortgage business, investment-wise, business-wise. I don’t understand the stock market. I mean, I’ll play a little bit here or there. Play a tip from time to time, but it’s too much risk-taking. Mortgages, it’s what I know. It’s really probably the best business someone could be.
As I’ve said, I’ve had other businesses. You look in your warehouse and you see an inventory that you know if there’s a hiccup, or the bank doesn’t like you this week, you might have to start unloading that inventory. And if you got to unload it quickly, you might get 10 cents on the dollar. The risks are huge.
In the mortgage business, whether you’re a broker, an agent, a lender, it’s what you know. You’re selling your experience. You’re selling your knowledge. There’s no better business than that.
Joseph: It’s also slow and steady, right? It’s like you’re not looking at the 30% yield that comes with stock markets, or in Lawrence and my case, the crypto market. It’s consistent, but when there’s a lot of money, you don’t need a huge return to see that money compound and turnover, and that’s why you see people with these safe and secure investments. It’s good. It’s consistent. Let it run over time. You’re not going to get rich tomorrow, but if you let it run over 10, 15, 20 years, it’s a phenomenal return. And there’s cash flow too, which is great.
David: We manage so much I guess I would call it retirement money, second generation, families investing for the grandkids. And honestly, to be an individual and have that responsibility, it’s an honor and it’s a privilege to sort of be at that level in this industry in private lending. The buck stops with me
We’re responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars. We just have to be careful and preserve capital no matter what we do, and you’re right, it’s slow. It’s steady. You’re not doing a deal to earn a fee. You’re doing it to continue and build that reputation and provide a steady stream of income. It’s not about doing those 12%, 15%, 20% deals. By the time you add in fees, it’s about being fair and providing a great service to borrowers and providing a fair and honest and great return to your investors.
Lawrence: Yeah. I completely agree with you. I always say to people, I think that the return is out of whack compared to the risk. I think that it’s such a great investment vehicle. It’s real property. You can go drive by it. You can look at it. You can touch it. You can sell it if you have to. I always like that the return is just so much higher than it probably should be. Are you guys seeing a rate compression in the commercial market, like the residential is going through right now?
David: Haven’t really experienced it. Like I said, in what we do, there may be some competition in rate, but I think the manner in which we conduct ourselves with our borrowers and with our brokers, rate becomes a nonissue.
Lawrence: A good broker understands that. They’re going to explain it to their client the right way, which is, “Listen, I can get you a cheaper rate, but I don’t know about these guys. First Source I know. I’ve dealt with them, I trust them. They know what they’re doing. Even if it’s slightly higher, go with them. You’re going to be happier at the end of the day that we dealt with them.”
Joseph: It’s exactly that. People see the APR when they sign the paperwork, and they go, “Oh, okay. I see.” But they don’t realize that’s just when they’re getting into the deal. And then there’s the APR after the deal is over. And if you’re two weeks late or you sneeze the wrong way, and you’re not working with someone who understands circumstances, that APR could be double with the wrong lender. And at least you know what you’re getting with David.
David: Know your client, and you have that on both sides as a lender. You have to make sure that the borrower understands that we can be flexible, and at the end of the day if you’re going to need an extension, speak to your broker, speak to your agent, speak to us in advance. We have a responsibility to investors. We got to turn that money over. So if you’re not going to pay me on time, you have to let me know.
Lawrence: Don’t bury your head in the sand and pretend like it’s not happening. Be proactive about it. And we’re all here to help out and make sure that you have a positive experience. That makes complete sense.
For brokers that are listening that maybe have not dealt with you or your company before, why should they send you a deal? Who should they send it to? How does all that work?
David: They may have heard of us through our weekly emails. But yeah, there’s myself, there’s Leonard, there’s Skip, there’s Paul. There are really four of us that deal with origination. So really the process is to pick up the phone, call one of us, and we can give you a quick answer. Or just send me a quick email.
Give me a synopsis. Get to know your deal first. Understand what it is the borrower’s looking for and call me. Don’t worry about it if you stumble or you don’t have some information, or you don’t really know what questions to ask, but you’ve got a deal. You can be this phenomenal residential broker, but you’ve got some business for the clients that every once in a while the commercial deal is going to come across your desk. Just call us.
What I think separates us, as I said, from our competitors is how we conduct ourselves. The fact that I was a broker long before I was a lender, I’ve got an innate understanding of that growth through that agent, through the broker learning curve, which takes years to become proficient.
By calling me or dealing with me, you get the benefit of my knowledge. You get the benefit of the years that my team has, and we’re a small group. We’re a boutique lending operation. You’re going to get the personal service that I don’t think you get the same way in other places. I mean, I have competitors that do similar numbers and they have substantially more staff. I’m not sure why. But we are really hands-on and work really closely with our brokers and agents. And all I can say is that we have an incredible respect for them coming from where we got our start.
Lawrence: Well, you heard it here from David. They consider themself a boutique lender. They do hundreds of millions of dollars though. So just know they have the experience. They have the capital. They want to work with you. They want to work with you in the deal, not just give you a simple no, send you on your way. But tell you maybe why it’s a no or where you should go for this type of loan and what they’re really looking for.
They’re happy to take your call anytime to talk you through a deal. So for those residential brokers out there who maybe aren’t as experienced, this could be a great option for you to maybe start getting your feet wet in this industry and maybe start marketing towards those types of deals.
David: Thank you very much, and my whole team, we’re all up on the website firstsourcemortgage.ca. Phone number’s there. Just give us a call or send in a deal, email’s there too. Just be in touch.